Russian.rfi.fr, 27.03.2014

Our correspondent spoke with Grigory Yavlinsky, founder of the YABLOKO party, who is at present deputy of the Legislative Assembly of St. Petersburg.

RFI: Grigory Alexeyevich, how do you assess the events that have been taking place in Ukraine since December 2013? Is it a rising of the people, or a struggle between different oligarchic groups, or (as they write about it in the official Russian press) a fascist coup made with a sole purpose to annoy Russia?

Grigory Yavlinsky: I can say with confidence that the essence of these events is the rejection of the criminal- oligarchic system created in Ukraine headed until recently by Viktor Yanukovych and closely resembling the Russian system.

This system is humiliating for people, it limits their possibilities, it is not law governed, it is arbitrary. This system has demonstrated depriving people of property, hampering economic development, development of education and science, that is, it does not allow people to live a normal life in their country.

And because this system is much poorer than the Russian system, due to the fact that there is no oil and gas, that is why people’s patience has been exhausted!

There was such an unspoken, non-worded agreement that people should bear all this, because this group on top there which ran Ukraine was leading the country to Europe. For the sake of becoming a European country people suffered this arbitrariness, this criminal-oligarchic system. But this social contract was violated by Yanukovych. And naturally people protested because it was their hope that only in this way, moving to Europe, they could get liberated and also get free from this criminal-oligarchic system, [this could be done only by means of] moving to Europe.

It is another topic whether all this is true, whether people can really be free and how soon it is possible to get to Europe. It does not refer to the public consciousness, it refers to professional analytical political reflections. But people had it in their minds: “we want to be a European country, we want the law be the same for all, we want to have the separation of powers, we want an honest judiciary, we want to respect our government, we want private property be inviolable”. Here are the basic meanings of what people aspired.

This system was perpendicular to all this, it was against all this, and it destroyed all this. And when people were told that “we do not go to Europe, moreover we are going to the opposite side, where the system is dominant, or simply determining” and people began protesting. Then violence was used against them, it was on 30 November, and then everything began developing according to the laws of street clashes, the laws of rebellion, the laws of revolutions. And because of the weakness of Ukrainian politics and politicians, the leading role in this struggle was taken by radicals, which represent a mixture of nationalists, criminals, Nazis, fascists, racists – whoever there may be!

So recently we have received a proof: White Hammer [organisation] who represent racist organizations killed policemen in Kiev. Just yesterday there was a clash between the new government represented by the Ukrainian interior and the Right Sector. You know that during the detention they put up armed resistance and one of the Right Sector members was killed. And so on. This is a natural development under these conditions. But it is precisely the radical groups that were at the forefront of all the events. And the question remains: who used snipers? where did these snipers come from? where did such violence come from? how did it all happened? All these questions remain open.

So, after all, the essence of the events is that it was people’s protest against the criminal-oligarchic system, and for ensuring that the country would head to the European Union. That is the essence of the events there.

RFI: What is you assessment of Crimea’s joining to the Russian Federation?

Grigory Yavlinsky: This is annexation. This is violation of international law, and it is a completely illegal action. This is violation of the UN Charter, it is violation of all the laws and rights. And it is not by chance that there is no country in the world that would support the annexation.

RFI: Grigory Alexeyevich, everyone who knows your biography at least in general, is aware that you were born in Lviv, that is, in the informal capital of Western Ukraine. What can you say: is it really such a citadel of Russophobia, anti-Semitism, the negative emotion – all what has been pouring on Russian newspapers readers and television viewers about Ukraine, especially Western Ukraine?

Grigory Yavlinsky: Well, I can say only good thing about my “small motherland” in such circumstances. I have very warm memories of my childhood. My father was a Soviet officer, and that is how my family moved to Lviv, by my ancestors do not come from Lviv, they come from Eastern Ukraine, from Cherkassy and Kharkov. I only know one thing, that when there was a crazy, counterproductive and, moreover, provocative attempt to repeal the law on languages ​​in Ukraine [decreasing the status of the Russian language], and it was precisely in Lviv when a number of book publishers began publishing literature – for the first time! – in Russian.

I know that the Congress of Intelligencia took place in Lviv, and they sent a letter to the [Ukrainian parliament] Verkhovna Rada. I know that a Day of the Russian Language was held in Lviv, when the whole city was speaking Russian.

What I would like to say is that Ukrainian aggressive and radical nationalism, as well as Russian aggressive and radical nationalism, like any radical nationalism, is a great danger, great misfortune and catastrophe. But to use this topic in order to hide the issue that the public protest was not a nationalistic protest, it was a protest against the criminal oligarchic system, means manipulation and propaganda. It is a dangerous thing, which can lead to very serious consequences.

RFI: What could you say about the economic and industrial potential of South-East Ukraine, on the one hand, and Western and Central Ukraine, on the other hand? Because there is such a general opinion that South-East Ukraine, the Donbass area in particular, is an industrialized region which has been pulling an “economically backward” Galicia, as well as other regions.

Grigory Yavlinsky: Western Ukraine is living on trade, provision of services and modern forms of entertainment and leisure. As for usefulness of metallurgical plants, production of chemicals, coal, – whether these productions are modern and cost-effective – well, if Russia wants to take all of these, it will soon find out what the demand is and who may buy it and how it all may develop.
As all this is built on the assumption that it damages the environment. That is why these products are sold at dumping prices, that is why they are cheap, and that is why there are buyers for them. That is what determines the potential.
As for the “breakthrough technology solutions”, there are rocket engineering and aeronautics and other serious engineering, including defense, industries… But whether it can be a foundation and a base of the country with fifty million people – I have great doubts here.
And people in Central Ukraine, Eastern, Western and Southern Ukraine are able to work well. And they have a taste for work, they are able to work from morning till night – a lo. And in agriculture and small businesses, they are adapted to this. So I think in that respect it has a good prospects. Speaking about these old, large Soviet enterprises, they need to be modernized. But I wonder who will modernize them and how much it will cost if they become Russian?

RFI: After the annexation of Crimea the United States, Canada, Japan and the European Union countries introduced a series of economic sanctions, first of all against top Russian officials and announced that Russia was driving itself into political isolation. Here, with reference to this context, what are the prospects for cooperation between Russia and the G7 countries?
Grigory Yavlinsky: Well, Russia is now a country with a zero reputation, and that’s it.