I caught up with Yabloko founder Grigory Yavlinsky, who
was in Prague this week to participate in the Forum 2000 conference,
for a brief on-the-record chat.
We discussed a range of issues including Vladimir Putin's
decision to return to the presidency, the possibility of change
in Russia today, and how his strategy of working within the
system differs from Boris Nemtsov and other members of the
so-called "non-systemic opposition."
The Power Vertical: When you announced your return to politics
you said you said that this was one of those moments when
change was truly possible. That was before United Russia held
its congress on September 24 and Vladimir Putin announced
his intention to return to the presidency. Do you still see
a opportunity for change?
Grigory Yavlinsky: I see an even greater opportunity. People
now see that if there isn't a change things will be just like
they are now for another 25 years. People want the situation
to change. I think Putin's return and Putin's [United Russia]
congress showed people the necessity of change even more than
before. The reaction in society and in the elite shows this.
For example, after the congress the number of people who want
to work with me and with Yabloko rose sharply. Even those
who were more moderate or indifferent are now in a different
mood. They have been under pressure from these conditions
for such a long time. What does [Putin's return] mean? It
means the preservation of the previous style and the previous
agenda. It means the same faces on television. It means everything
will remain the same. People can't take this anymore.
The Power Vertical: Do you agree with the assessment of many
observers that there is a risk that Russian politics and society
could enter into another so-called era of stagnation as in
the late 1970s and early 1980s?
Yavlinsky: There is already stagnation. It isn't a risk.
It's a reality. There is no dynamic in society. There is no
engine of development. Fatigue is rising in society. Dissent
is rising. Alienation is rising. Not only due to corruption,
the lack of human rights, the lack of property rights, but
also because everything has been the same for a long time
and this has caused alienation. Change is only possible if
there is an alternative. And right now is a moment when this
can happen.
The Power Vertical: And you believe that Yabloko can be that
alternative?
Yavlinsky: There is nobody else. Some like me and some don't.
But it is a fact of life that other than Yabloko there is
nobody else. Those who don't like what is happening in Russia
today are far greater in numbers than my [traditional] electorate.
But who else is there for them [to voter for]? The Communists?
[LDPR leader Vladimir] Zhirinovsky? There's nobody else. [A
Just Cause leader Sergei] Mironov? Right Cause has already
died.
The Power Vertical: You recently appeared on the talk show
Mnenie (Opinion) on Vesti-24. Things like that don't happen
by accident in Russia. There has been a fair bit of speculation
in the media that if you get into the State Duma you are being
set up to play the role that Sergei Mironov once played or
that Mikhail Prokhorov was meant to play -- that of a nominal
opposition figure who is loyal and obedient to the regime.
Is there any truth to this speculation?
Yavlinsky: I will be myself. I will be the same as I have
been for the past 20 years. Moreover, in order to do something
serious you need to appear not on Vesti-24, but on Channel
One or RTR for an interview. Vesti-24 isn't a political channel.
Sure, that was some kind of sign. They're playing some kind
of game. And as for those who are writing in the press that
I will play the role of Mironov, it is in their interest to
destroy the idea of some kind of alternative [to the current
authorities].
The Power Vertical: So you don't see yourself becoming part
of the so-called "systemic opposition"?
Yavlinsky: The real non-systemic opposition is in the mountains
of the Caucasus. [Opposition figures Vladimir] Ryzhkov, [Mikhail]
Kasyanov, [Boris] Nemtsov, [Garry] Kasparov, [Eduard] Limonov,
and all the others are the systemic opposition as well. They
pay their taxes they fulfill their civic obligations participate
in Russian politics in their own way. This suits the authorities.
Anybody who the authorities don't want to tolerate is already
not in Russia.
The Power Vertical: But these people, Nemtsov, Ryzhkov, Kasparov,
etc, they are very different from those traditionally seen
as the systemic opposition like Gennady Zyuganov, Vladimir
Zhirinovsky, Sergei Mironov.
Yavlinsky: Sure, they are different in that they speak differently.
But they pay their taxes and this finances the state, they
finance Mr. Putin. So if they believe in their strategy, let
them follow their strategy. I don't know whose strategy is
more correct, mine or theirs. I only know that there is a
moment right now. And there is Yabloko's strategy and there
is Nemtsov's strategy.
The Power Vertical: But Nermtsov and the others differ from
you in that you are permitted to participate in the elections
while they are not. Their strategy, as you called it, is born
of necessity. They would participate if they could, but the
authorities would not register the Party of People's Freedom
(PARNAC).
Yavlinsky: If they want to participate, then why are they
criticizing me? If they were allowed to participate then they
would. This means they would like to be part of the systemic
opposition.
The Power Vertical: Do you see them as allies?
Yavlinsky: I see anybody who is fighting for democracy in
Russia as an ally.
-- Brian Whitmore
Published with a kind permission of Radio Free Europe/Radio
Liberty
See also:
the
original publication
Presidential
Elections 2012
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